Leaving a Cult

[Fionn]

I really do think the 'cult duties supersede orders' rule should be rethought. At present every new character has to join a cult in the first few turns, and many can join as an Initiate. New players thus have to commit themselves without really knowing the situation. If your priorities, your abilities or even the rules undergo a change, you should be able to move cults without an unavoidable 1 in 6 chance of death.

If the rule said "A character will always carry out cult duties in preference to other orders unless refusal is specifically ordered; such a refusal brings immediate demotion within the cult" then Initiates or God-Talkers could choose to give up the position they worked for, and become Lay Members who can resign without penalty unless they join a hostile cult. (If a further penalty is wanted, it could be that such a refusal is grounds for a challenge from fellow-cultists). Higher ranks would have to wait till Sacred Time or the cult's favoured season to show their lack of enthusiasm, which would lessen but not remove the penalty.

[Puckohue]

New players thus have to commit themselves without really knowing the situation

I agree with this part.

Maybe a quaranteen period of one ingame year for new players (not characters)?

[Ivarenna]

Maybe "initiate into an associated cult" instead of "join"?

But how to handle the consequences of an Initiate not doing their cult duties? If they are demoted to lay member, they can leave the cult without consequences.

On the other hand, is it possible to avoid doing your cult duties? Cult duties will replace any other given orders if needed.

Following are my thoughts/suggestions.

Unlike joining as a lay member, becoming an initiate is a serious commitment. You cannot simply drop to uninitiated status.

If you fail to do your cult duties the first time you should do double duty (4 weeks) the following month. If you fail to do cult duties a second time within the next year you should be sent on a 2 month cult mission with an 11+ death roll, say.

If you fail to do cult duties again within a year of the 2nd infringement, then you should be expelled from the cult and suffer the attack from the spirits of reprisal (10+ death roll suggested by Grumbold was a good idea). Furthermore something like a negative MIB penalty to CPs. Roll 1D6. Lose that many CPs each month for 3 months. Being expelled is a serious penalty and will impact on Charisma.

[Ivarenna]

Leaving a cult for initiates and above should also incur 1D6 negative CPs for 3 months. Perhaps more/longer for the higher ranks.

[Erik]

I like the suggestions for punishment for abandoning your cult, but we would need a grace period so players can leave their current cults if they wish to.

[Quatlu]

Forgive me for being a little slow on the draw, but why would someone who's committed to join a cult and rise in its ranks possibly want to leave? You learned about the cult as a lay member, and if you decide it's not for you, then you leave to join another cult with a doctrine that better suits your character. If you decide to rise in your commitment and rank, then you have obviously made a firm commitment to the cult's ways et al. Unless you are totally without honor and have no scruples, I can't imagine a character choosing to leave. You might get kicked out for your actions, and suffer appropriate consequences, but actively resigning?

[Ivarenna]

I like the suggestions for punishment for abandoning your cult, but we would need a grace period so players can leave their current cults if they wish to.

Good suggestion.

[Fionn]

Forgive me for being a little slow on the draw, but why would someone who's committed to join a cult and rise in its ranks possibly want to leave?

People move jobs and social circles all the time: characters can and do change regiment, inn, lover and possibly guild with no penalty at all (other than writing off your time and investment). It is not obvious that a cult should be different; it is certainly not obvious that a choice you made in your first turn can only ever be altered at risk of death.

[Rufus]

Going to jump in with a few suggestions but I don't want to make it more work for Puckohue.

Not keen on a spirit of reprisal as it involves extra admin and for some people it would be deadly and others could shrug it off.

Part 1 - leaving a cult
I suggest that if lay members leave, then there is no penalty.

Initiates and above can leave but take a CP penalty - say 3x the CP benefit they would have gained from that position (so an initiate leaving would cost 6 CP). Perhaps going to join a rival cult would inflict penalties for 2 months. People would be able to drop one rank per month if they wanted to slowly move out of a cult.

Failure to perform a week's cult duties would inflict a CP loss equivalent to those gained from their position. So an initiate failing to perform a week's duties would gain 2 CP's for being an initiate and lose 2 for not doing one week's duties (so a net zero) and a further -2 from not doing the second week.

Hopefully that would keep it simple making it less time consuming for Puckohue and make it easier so admin errors would be less likely.

Part 2 - Cult differentiation

Orlanth is the most popular cult and for good reason. It is a warrior cult so people can go for a military career and as it has the maximum number of positions in its structure, it gives the most opportunities for career advancement.

Other warrior cults are therefore less attractive. Quite how you redress this imbalance could be debated at length but, as a suggested example "Inured to death - Humakti Rune Lords and above get a +1 death modifier on battle outcomes."

Of course being an assistant priest of above in a non warrior cult does stop your military career but that is a separate issue.

[Puckohue]

I'm going to try to make something of this.

The new "leaving a cult" rules will be in use from 1632-2.

Please be aware: whatever the details of the final rules, there will be harsher consequences for leaving a cult.